Posts by Juan Viejo2

13

Could you help me with a little Witness history ?

by ukgirl in

as part of a student film project that i am completing i will be conducting a telephone interview with an exjw tomorrow.. the person i am interviewing was a witness between the years of the 50's (born in) - late 80's so obviously would have been in their late teens for the prophecies and events of 1975.. as this person is older than i, i am plan to tailor my questions around being a witness in that time period.

i just wonder if you could point me in the direction of any more date specific events surrounding this time period that i could touch upon in my interview ?.

much appreciated .

Juan Viejo2

Another important feature of the 1950s to 1970s was the release of the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. The New Testament (the Greek Scriptures) was first released in 1950 and the first of the Hebrew Scriptures was released in 1953. The whole Bible was translated and released by 1960.

What we did not know was that we were being lied to the entire time. At the big International Conventions we were told that the Society had employed highly qualified scholars and translators to do the hard work. We were given word pictures of highly qualified brothers and non-Witness scholars viewing the Dead Sea Scrolls, accessing museums and libraries around the world (even the Vatican was mentioned), and pouring over ancient manuscripts with magnifying glasses, etc.

We would all cheer and clap and stand up to applaud the hard work being done. I remember getting my very own first leather bound edition of the complete NWT Bible in 1960.

But it was all lies. All a sham. We did not have specialized scholars accessing manuscripts and papyrus rolls in the British Museum and the Vatican. None of that ever happened. It was just Freddy Franz and a few specialized hellpers who took other modern and popular translations, along with the Emphatic Diaglott and similar books and then rewording using more modern (but not necessarily conversational) speech and writing styles. Freddy would approve and then read sections to Brother Knorr and the other officers of the Watchtower. They would rubberstamp his work and it would get published.

The fact is that we were scammed - and still are being scammed. They just outright lied to us from 1950 to 1975. They simply pulled it all out of Freddie's ass that whole time. Frankly I'm surprised that Raymond Franz, who all but acknowledged that he was aware of what happened, didn't throw in the towel earlier. It had to be bothering his conscience knowing that his uncle was scamming everyone.

JV

57

IMPORTANT NEWS: ABC News' Nightline will air a segment about the Watchtower (JWs) Wednesday morning at 12:35 a.m. EST

by AndersonsInfo in

important news:.

here in the united states, on wednesday morning, march 11th at 12:35 a.m., est, barring any breaking news the day before, the program, nightline, will air as their lead story a 9-minute segment about the watchtower (jehovah's witnesses).

the program is 30 minutes long and this segment is only one part of the show.

Juan Viejo2

This has been reset to late Thursday night (early Friday) at 12:35 AM on your local ABC affiliate station (USA onlyl)

JV

22

Memorial Date this year, why so far out ?

by Phizzy in

we have debated for many a long year on jwn about the "proper" date for the passover/memorial and my conclusion is that jw's get it all wrong for a number of reasons, but as the gospels are contradictory, nobody can say for sure.. most years they are close to the time by a day or so, signalled by the full moon occurring about then.. i believe this year they have chosen saturday april 11th.. this is a full week, near enough, away from the full moon.. what has gone on with their calculation ?.

Juan Viejo2

What screws everything up is that the Memorial is supposed to be after sundown on Nisan 14 (Jewish calendar).

Theoretically, this should be on or equivalent to the Thursday before Good Friday before Easter Sunday. Because the only thing consistent is that Good Friday and Easter Sunday fall on the weekend of or after the full moon, Nisan 14 can actually fall before or several days after the full moon. So we are really dealing with two calendars and two traditions. The last time I went to a Memorial was the 24th of April, 2011. If I remember correctly, the Memorial was celebrated on the 17th, the previous Sunday, almost a full week before Easter.

Didn't matter. Same old story. Same old boring prayers (like 6 of them). Same talk with the same old shit. Same old Manischewitz and stale crackers. Never went back and never will again. I have no idea if anyone actually partook of the emblems. Jehovah was definitely somewhere else that night.

JV

66

BART EHRMAN answers my question

by TerryWalstrom in

as a member on bart ehrman's blog, i am able to ask him direct questions.is jehovah in the bible?.

question:.

how firmly grounded in reality is the claim of jehovahs witnesses that the divine name (jehovah) belongs in the new testament?.

Juan Viejo2

Orphan Crow, et al -

Yes, the KJV Bible was used by JWs up and through most of the 1950s. The first segment of the New World Translation was released in 1950, and then segments of the Hebrew Scriptures were released at International Assemblies over the next 8 years. I got my first leather bound NWT in 1960 that had all of the segments and a concordance and footnotes. Even though it was my pride and joy at the time, one day while out in field service I traded my leather bound copy of the NWT for an even nicer and far more valuable leather bound copy of "The Complete Works of William Shakespeare." I've loved the Bard ever since.

There were problems using the NWT in field service and during new Bible studies. Since most people had the KJV, if they grabbed their Bible and wanted to read along with you (just to make sure you weren't trying to sneak something by them), the two versions did not match in many places (John 1:1). The accuracy of the KJV was so ingrained in the public's mind, that hearing verses read from the NWT made them suspicious that we were trying to "change the Bible." Of course, at the time we thought that was ridiculous. It was only later that we discovered that those suspicions were actually quite accurate and the NWT should have been titled, "The Fred Franz Authored and Authorized Version of the 1850 King James Version of the Bible."

JV

23

What I really fear about JW.ORG

by StarTrekAngel in

much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.

from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.

many tools and theories have been brought forward.

Juan Viejo2

defender of truth offered the following comment:

According to a JW I've spoken to, who overheard a private conversation between some elders, the organisation is working on setting up THEIR OWN INTERNET SERVICE. One reason given by an elder was so that the website can't be blocked. He can't give any more details, he only heard part of what was said, but he is 100% trustworthy and I know he wouldn't have made it up.
What could be another reason behind this move?

Many companies, universities, charities and governments have their own private networks. It is feasible that the Watchtower could set up a network of their own and use it to stream programs to Kingdom Halls, email and documents to elders and middle range managers (COs, Branch Overseers, Construction managers, department heads). While it would be conceivable that they could use private satellites or wired networks for that kind of private network that would make it almost impenetrable, the cost v. benefit ratio would be excessive. With new technologies appearing almost daily, it is more likely that they would simply create a more secure system using the existing Internet structure or use some form of "cloud" technology to isolate their network from the public Internet based networks. They would still have to keep JW.org on the public Internet or it would lose its potential and reach.

Creating a private network that extends to and limits access to Watchtower HQ offices, corporate entities, branch offices would make some sense (that's what banks, large corporations and governments do). On the other hand, they would have to maintain some, if not a great deal of public access in order to support their proselytizing work.

Does no good to put JW.org signs, jewelry, T-shirts, etc. everywhere for people to see and then block access to their website. What I can see is the Watchtower moving all of its archival material onto a private network or making it nearly impossible to get to without regular attendance at a Kingdom Hall or being MS or above. They could change the passwords every month (or even every day) and distribute only to a shortlist of higher ranking elders. But for what? There are "apostate spies" among elders and within HQ building everywhere around the world. They will share what they can when they can. Many of us already have contacts who are deep inside, or are friends of others who are deep inside who like to gossip or share insider info.

The real truth will always find a way to leak out and apostates and secular critics will find a way to access data and publications. Do we care what their travel budgets are, or how much markup they have on their own rental cars? Can we expect to read internal documents from their legal, service or writing departments? Not likely. But do we really need to? We can see the effects of their internal workings - we don't need to see every memo or draft to forecast the problems they will have or the doctrines they will have to change.

If it gets to elder level or below, we will get access to it...

JV

23

What I really fear about JW.ORG

by StarTrekAngel in

much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.

from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.

many tools and theories have been brought forward.

Juan Viejo2

Yesterday I got a call from a JW fader who shared this story:

---------------------------

He asked one of the elders at his Kingdom Hall if he had one of the earlier Watchtower CDs. He told the elder that he wanted to look up some articles from the 1980-1995 period. The elder asked him why he would want to do that? "Just to compare with what the Watchtower teaches now on certain subjects. I know a lot of beliefs have changed since Russell and Rutherford, but I am specifically interested in changes over the past 30 years."

My contact described what happened after he offered this excuse: "Just to compare with what the Watchtower teaches now on certain subjects. I know a lot of beliefs have changed since Russell and Rutherford, but I am specifically interested in changes over the past 30 years."

"And just why are you interested in doing that? What do you hope to find or prove?"

"Wait a moment," I responded, "are there things in those publications that I should not read?"

"No. But I just don't know why you would want to waste your time looking up old articles. The Governing Body makes sure that we are kept up to date."

"If that is the case, then why do they often quote from older publications and statements made in magazines some 25 or 30 years ago. Would that not indicate that they still feel what was written in those publications is still valid?"

The elder would not budge. "Why do you want to waste your time? Why don't you just concentrate on what is in the current publications and on JW.org. You will gain nothing by going back and reading those old books and magazines."

That's when I went for the throat. "I've been in your house and have seen your bookcase. It is filled with old publications. You have every bound Watchtower and Awake! collection since 1950 prominently displayed. You even have a full set of Rutherford's 'Rainbow series.' If they are of no particular value, why do you keep them? If they are there as historic curiosities, would it not be better to donate them to new Kingdom Hall or ship them back to the Society?"

"I have them, but don't read them."

"And why not?"

"There has been much new light since they were published and there is no value to them except for historic purposes."

That's when I ended the conversation with, "And that's exactly why I was asking you for the old CDs - for 'historic purposes.' But never mind, I'm sure I can find what I need from online sources."

HIs response was chilling: "Be careful brother. Be very careful. You could find yourself losing your faith or worse."

--------------------------

I've heard others tell me that elders have been very resistant to loaning out library books or even getting into discussions about old publications. One "active" brother told me that several weeks after asking questions about older publications, the CO made a "shepherding call" to his home and expressed concern that he might be "slipping into apostacy." When he asked the CO why he felt that was a possibility, the CO responded that it was because "you have been asking about older publications and have created real concern among the elders about the strength of your faith and commitment to the organization."

JV

23

What I really fear about JW.ORG

by StarTrekAngel in

much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.

from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.

many tools and theories have been brought forward.

Juan Viejo2

Eden One, et al -

I agree with your premise that by going "electronic" the JW.org (nee "The Watchtower") will be able to slowly but surely eliminate all evidence of past wrongdoing, misapplication of scripture, false and failed prophecies from their own online libraries and resources. They will decree that only versions of their online magazines, books, and other literature will be correct; all other versions, including versions printed by the Watchtower itself, will be unofficial or "tainted by apostates." They will convince their faithful followers that magazines and books printed in Rutherford's time and especially leading up to and during the 1975 debacle, have been modified or otherwise altered by Satan the Devil and his apostate followers.

The Mormon Church has done this with much of their older literature - even some of the writings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. The prophetic imaginings of George Orwell's 1984 will become fact, not fantasy. The Watchtower Society has been Orwellian in almost every sense after the failure of the 1975 prophecy.

How can they do this? By printing their "yearbooks" online, they can change numbers to show consistent growth even where their numbers have diminished. They can change text of older magazines and books to eliminate false statements or evidence of their errors.

Notice that they are only pushing JW.org to the public. The "Watchtower" identity is clearly beginning to fade. Mention of founders like Russell and Rutherford have dramatically reduced, and there is hardly any mention at all of WT superstars like Knorr, Covington, or Fred Franz in modern JW postings. Yes, the TV.JW.org presentations do show historical photos of 1930s and 1940s events and publishers, but always in self-promotional ways.

I'm guessing that by slowly eliminating all literature prior to the year 2000 from their online archives, they will hope that everything before that time will be almost impossible for then current JWs to find for themselves.

So it is up to those of us who have collected the older books, magazines, and other documents to archive them and be sure to pass them on to others in the future to keep the truth of the past alive.

After all, "it is by their words you shall know them." The Watchtower wants those words to fade away and become unavailable to future JWs. We need to make sure that never happens. Former JWs like Barbara Anderson, Paul Grundy, and many others are doing their best to keep the truth about the "Truth" alive.

JV

11

The Mentally Diseased Apostates Latest re-mix of JW video

by Newly Enlightened in

happy @ bethel michael jackson.

Juan Viejo2

I can see a lot of people in that video who would probably be a lot happier outside of the organization than in it. Just getting a chance to let loose, even for just a few moments, must be exhilarating for them.

I think the fact that these videos are even seeing the light of day is a very good thing. That makes crimes committed by JWs and the coverups authorized and enforced by the WT even more horrific and unexplainable. And Simon is right - the Michael Jackson song really is far more appropriate than "Happy" could ever be.

JV

11

What JW.ORG Needs - Live Chat Feature

by Garrett in

jw
friends

someone with influence needs to persuade the gb to add a live chat feature to the website.. i was strolling through the mormon site out of curiosity and noticed they had a live chat option.

golly, i can't pass this up.

i decided to talk to jake and spencer.

Juan Viejo2

I mentioned that JW.org needed a discussion area or comments like YouTube during my phone call to Watchtower last week. Was brushed off by the young woman who was handling my call. My guess is that this comes up nearly every day, but no way does the WT want to create a two-way conversation on their pride and joy website or streaming video.

57

Please Welcome me

by Sofia Lose in

jw
friends

have lurked here for many, many years.

female, latina, middle-aged, born-in, 3rd generation jw, northeast usa.

my fate is to continue to play the game 'till death do us part because the very strong and tangled web of friends, family, business, etc.

Juan Viejo2

Sofia - my websites get many emails from JWs just like you. Some are elders and continue to do their jobs as expected and never let on that they don't believe the WT bullshit at all. Breaking up families is often too traumatic for one person to do. You see this same approach taken by individual Catholics and "practicing" Jews - because if they didn't they would have no family, no friends, no home, no job, and no resources or family inheritance. They would become a nobody to everybody they know.

"Shadow Elder," a New York resident who has been discussed here several times and submitted a post to Ex-JW.com, was just such a person. He did eventually share his feelings with one of his sons. I have not heard from him in years, so my guess is that he and his son continue to pretend to be active and committed JWs just to keep their family together (Shadow told me that his wife would leave him and never let him see his kids again if he ever admitted to being an apostate.)

So Sofia - do what is right for you. But know that you have a very wide selection of friends here and can find excellent support on many ex-JW discussion websites. You will have far more friends than you can imagine who will not criticize you or call you a hypocrite for doing what you feel you have to do. At the same time we all hope that someday you will be able to break free and move away completely.

JV